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ashevilledarts.com • WCDA message board
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WCDA message board

Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:43 am
by diamond
Has the message board been abandoned in favor of Facebook? I check both, but not all league members belong to Facebook. I haven't seen any posts by officers in a long while. Just curious.


Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:47 pm
by cam
It would have to be occupied to be abandon.

Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:54 pm
by diamond
Thanks for replying Charlie, but this post has had 13 views today so someone is looking. This forum is for WCDA members and messages about the league should be posted. Nancy posted some ADO information today.

Some explaination regarding the statistics page should be posted here. I don't need to go to Facebook if it's posted here. I haven't met anyone who understands the new stats page. My team is 4 and 0 yet we show up tied for third. Why? We don't play against B league so our stats shouldn't be mixed.


Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:02 pm
by absolute
Dave, we do still look at the message board often, but the majority of participation seems to be coming from facebook. We have tried for years to encourage our members to post, but we never seem to get good response. As far as the stats go, Peter is putting a lot of hard work into this new system. There are a few kinks that need to be straightened out, and as soon as everything is worked out, this system is gonna be such an improvement from our old one. We ask for a little patience and Im certain you will be happy with how the score system works. I will pass the concern on to Peter and get him to post on this website as well as facebook. Thanks for your question, hope this answers it!

Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:41 am
by JAM
It's obvious that very few post about anything. But, that does & should not affect this site from having ALL pertinent info about the WCDA posted HERE!
That should be a REQUIREMENT from the league. It's great if whomever wants to post to Facebook also, but, this is the official WCDA site and should come first. There seems to be a serious lack of communication & explanation. Especially about the stats page. (I must admit, I don't understand the page either.) Are star points back? To quote Abbott & Costello, "Who's on first?!?"........Good luck to all.......

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:27 am
by diamond
Thank you Sabrina and Jim for your posts. As of this morning this one subject has been viewed 47 times. Take away 2 for me and that's 45 people looking at this one subject. Many of our members don't have a log in and therefore do not post.

I agree the new stat will be an improvement but for now it's difficult to tell where you stand. That's why it's critical we have more information posted on the message board. I didn't even know we were going to a new system.


Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:02 pm
by cam
The new system was anounced at the captains meeting ,and I don't know for sure but I'd say one of the big problems they had was dealing with our neanderthall scoring system.being that we are the only league on the planet that doesn't have game points,star points or a triple crown.the system was basicly set up for the way we scored years ago.before we decided to become a singles league with in team league format.we at one time carried a format that could make a player be abel to compare there stats with just about any other league in the US and Canada.
top ten was ranked based on all games played not just singles
top gun was based on singles play alone"for some reason thats all we score now"
and star points were awarded for good darts''wich alowed a player playing in a lower league to compare with upper leagues to see what level of darts they should be playing.
and at the end of the season if a player was strong enough to capture all three of those catergories they recieved a triple crown award.
also team games where averaged so that a 8/9 loss was kind of a small victory and a blow out could be devistating."going win loss just made doubles and team game less important than they already where along with getting rid of game points.
so in closing our stats suck because of certain people campaining to change them from a universal system to a system that only scores singles and w/l instead of averages for the team.that is just my $.02
P.S. the occupied/abandon thing was a atempt at being funny and i alone have read this sight atleast 10 times LATER

Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:56 pm
by diamond
Charlie I just visited 5 dart league websites and looked at their stats page. They are all different from any way we used to do it. Two of them go by win-loss just like we do.

One goes by total points earned, apparently each player is ranked and depending on if you beat a player that is ranked higher than you you take points away from them. The amount you earn depends on both players rank. In other words it's a complicated system.

The last two leagues rate their teams by total games won vs. total games played. Last season the first place team had a 40 game lead over second place! That really sounds like fun. None of them had star points. They did list ton80s, nine counts, six bulls, high in, and high out.

How can you say doubles don't count? If you sweep doubles you are up 8-0 and are assured of playing the tie breaker even if you lose all 8 singles matches. I was disappointed when the 1001 game was reduced to a tie breaker instead of a 3 point game.

Unless you play another person head to head or keep a point per dart average you cannot compare your stats to a player in a different division or league. Mainly because you don't play the same people.

I spoke with Peter this week and I think the new system will be great once we work out the bugs.


Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:58 pm
by JAM
Good luck with it ya'll !

Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:51 am
by estevenrjr
Hell, I didnt know that the ranking system had changed!? I am disappointed to hear that the main source of info for the league may be Facebook instead of this site. I am probably in the super-minority in not having a FB account. However, dont we have a webmaster as an officer that could make sure all new pertinent league info is posted here even if it is on FB first?!

Charlie, I appreciate the fact that you have been the primary communicator on this site for the current set of officers. You are honest and straightforward. If you had been through as many changes and discussions over the ranking system in the past 22 years as Dave Ledford, myself and others have, you may not be so trite with your tone. We have gone from the simple w/l system to several variations of the point system back to a different w/l system and now back to another variation of the point system. All moves were for good reason after thorough discussion, as I hope this move is.

It boils down to this: 1) The w/l system is the most black and white, straightforward system which has no bias whatsoever...your team wins the match or it loses, and your players win their singles matches or they lose - most wins determine the best; 2) As soon as you start assigning point value to all the various intermediate events and achievements that lead toward a win or a loss, you add bias and fairness then becomes an issue.

When the point system first started, it was fun and interesting because we had more things to shoot for and get credit for. Ironically, it created more focus on point-gathering than winning (i.e. a top player who is dominating the opponent, shoots for more all star points rather than closing out a game). This happened more and more, so points shifted weight more to the wins than all star points. Then the issue became top players on a team with other top players earn more points than a more skill-mixed team, so we took away points earned in doubles and 4 person events for the singles ranking.

There has always been fairness issues with the point system, but it is more fun and interesting (and complicated to keep up with). There has never been fairness issues with the win/loss system, but it is too cold and boring (and much simpler to keep up with). Dont discount what has been behind each change in the system in the past, and, likewise, communicate better what is behind this change and you will get more compliance.

My $.02 worth is that balance is the key to all decisions which affect a large number of people, so digging a bit deeper and communicating more before these decisions will most likely affect a result that is a combination of the best of each side of the issues.

Whatever we go with is fine with me, but when confusion exists about just what is going on and the reasons behind a change is because "certain people" campaigned for a system that "sucks" makes me believe that not alot of thought and discussion was put into this one!

Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:37 pm
by tmoney
so we had 2 months before the season started and now a third of the dart season has passed and there are still 'kinks' in a w/l system and no one knows how they stand? sounds like a systen that's not applicable for our league. I love having as many stats as possible but if we are ranked and given awards team and individual alike based on wins and losses then the only stats we need and care about are wins and losses 'in our respective leagues.' As a footnote my stats werent updated this wk. I'm 12-8.

Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:41 pm
by tmoney
I'd like to see a system developed for our league not a league developed for a system

Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:43 pm
by diamond
Thank you Steve for posting your opinion. I know several members who don't have a Facebook page.

Our current format Win - Loss was voted on by the league members. The members are always free to vote in a different format.

I am distressed more officers haven't posted a reply to this thread. As I mentioned before the A league schedule is unbalanced. The Feingold bracket will play one less match than the Hobart bracket. I would hate to see someone lose out on Top Gun because they played one less match. That's up to 6 singles games. I've had several players express concern about the schedule. Shortly before the league started this season Mike Kleiner, Janel Pellitier, and I looked at the 11 teams and Janel showed Mike and I how all 11 teams could play the same number of matches. I forwarded Janel's idea to the officers, but the schedule that was produced was unbalanced. Now people are asking why, and so far no reply has been forth coming. So my captain will bring it up at the mid-season captain's meeting. I hope we receive a good answer.


Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:38 am
by cam
my statements about our scoring system was strickly a "me " statement.as i tried to adress with the "my .02 ".I maybe seemed to be a little callus about it because i have seen us lose a great system.A system that if abused can ruffle feathers ,but mostly a system that scores every game played COUNT either for you or against you. I know if you win all your doubles you would be up 8/0 under the old system,but now you would have to win one more match to finish 1/0.Plus i never liked the fact that when our membership voted out star points game points went with them.I know that was something that never got brought up. As far as being a officer i love the job and this league and i will always stand behind what our league as a whole wants.but that doesn't mean i want disagree.
P.S.I think I come off a little Meaner when I'm typing than when talking in person.So fill free at any time to call me or aproach me about any concerns that you may have with our league .

Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:07 am
by cam
Now I'll atempt to adress theese concerns as an officer"maybe i should have posted those other things on the smack page"
FaceBook??? This is our offical page,and the only page I read .
It's also the only page that I will respond to. I hope everybody in our league that wants to join this page is'nt having problems doing so .and if you are PLEASE call ME 301-2027 .
Dave it seems you have found the source conserning the stats,and are pleased.

Tim i think we could have a better score system I personally think we had one .It is tough losing the night by 1 point and being tied with a team that hasn't won but maybe a couple of single matches.I think you may have some input on how to get stats back,I would love to hear it.

Steve thanks for pointing out my tone it wasn't ment to offend ,and I apoligize if it did.The change was put in to place for future capibilitys .such as back records and posting stats online rather than having to mail.