New rules set for spring 2013

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Bonnie
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Post by Bonnie » Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:32 pm

No Stacey, the banquet shouldn't be held on a Tuesday. People are more apt to change their calendars for a banquet. The cash leagues / blind draws aren't run by the league so they shouldn't interfere with league business. Meetings held in the past on a Tuesday night followed by a blind draw have been successful.

It is unacceptable for so few members to decide who our officers are. If it's not unacceptable to you Stacey, then what would you call it? And, no, it wasn't directed at the board, like Dave said. This is a problem that needs to be addressed. I don't have a problem at all with who was elected, but if you want everyone to quit saying only a few people run the league, these are situations the board needs to avoid. It's the way things are perceived.

I'm really tired of the board taking offense at things that I say. It seems if other people say them, it's fine. If I say them, people take offense or take what I'm trying to say the wrong way. I'm just trying to look after the league as I've always done. Don't take it personally. Hopefully, the board is listening to all of the suggestions, not just the ones they think are great.

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Post by diamond » Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:08 am

I'm sure we are all on the same side. We want the league to thrive. I'm glad to see folks posting their concern for the well being of the league. We don't need to fight about it among ourselves.

We simply need to market the league better. If more people only knew how much fun it is to play we would have more participants.

There have been plenty of great ideas listed, however we have a great untapped resource, other leagues. I'm sure if we contacted other successful leagues they would share their secrets of success. Perhaps the board should form a committee to contact other successful leagues and find out what worked for them. Our league has been very successful over the last 23+ years, but we could always do better.

A couple of items I'm concerned about are the increase in sponsor fees and star points for B division and lower.

I've already heard some negative feedback from bar owners about the increase. With the economy like it is don't we run the risk of losing some sponsors? Maybe I'm wrong about this, but nobody likes to pay more fees.

I was a big opponent of star points, but since it won't be in the division I play in I really don't care on a personal level, As a league member I need to point out we'll have to provide additional score sheets for the star points and we will increase the work load on the statistician. Was the increase in expenses to the league considered?

Later,
Diamond

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cam
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Post by cam » Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:36 pm

well i think ill put in my 2 cents as to why the league is shrinking,and i've said it before so i'll say it again.ITS THE SCORING SYSTEM.we give less trophies we have taken the team out of team play .it's really about the product when marketing,and right now there isn;t much for a new team joining to take home other than big fat 0's on a pink sheet.bring back scoring every game played for your top ten.let singles play only determine top gun.bring back star points except for cricket for a trophy what would it hurt.bring back team game.bring back team w/l averages and singles w/l averages maybe you won 1 of the three get credit for it and take the credit from them.when you are not one of the top players in the div.all theese things can let you go home with some since of acomplishment.like taking a singles game off a top gun contender or taking 4 off the top teams average or getting 5 star points for good darts thrown.i truly feel like the current system is flawed it leans toward a big me little you kind of feel.so next time we vote on changes maybe think about what it would be like to be in the lower half or just joining this league and does any of that sound like fun.In closing my opinion is if we keep changing our set up based on what the top ten wants WCDA 's future is ten guys playing at mckalls.just saying

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Post by diamond » Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:44 am

You make some really good points Charlie, perhaps star points would be good for the lower divisions as it was voted in at the last meeting.

I still can't grasp your concept of counting the doubles record toward individual standings. If we did that last season my whole team would have made the top ten instead of only one. Individual standings are simply that, individual. A weak doubles partner would drag down a strong player and the strong player would pull the weak player up, so we wouldn't have a good picture of either player's true skill level.

Since A division has added a 4 person 701 match to the format we have really made team play important. The whole match is worth 19 points and the doubles and 4 person matches are worth 11 points. So you could be swept in singles and your team could still win the match. So how is the team taken out of the match?

With regards to awards, everyone likes to win them, however they have to mean something to have value. My son has received a trophy every year for simply participating in youth baseball, but I have no idea where those trophies are. His team did win the championship two times and he made the all star team once. Those awards are prominently displayed in his room. So awards simply for award's sake are meaningless.

Check out the top ten standing over the last few years and while you'll see some people there consistently, you'll also see quite a large number of different names as well. There are only 4 founders still active in the league and none of us currently hold an office. Our board is made up of mostly B division players. So tell me how the league is run by the top ten?
If I didn't care about the growth of the league I would go to Dave G's garage and play every week.

This year alone Dave Roberts and I have held three money leagues and two of them were seeded doubles. We had great participation in all of them.

Do you really think a few star points will attract more players? If so let's vote them in. Personally I think it will take more work.

Later,
Diamond

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Post by Sportsgirl33 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:33 am

diamond wrote:Great post Jackie!!! The league is well established and we have many long time members, but we always need new players.

I've heard from some folks we are an exclusive group and it's hard to get into the inner circle. That's a load of crap as far as I'm concerned. I've welcomed every new player I've met and so have many other members. Sometimes we hear the same people win in A division each year, but those are the dedicated players willing to take time to practice. How many of you only pick up their darts on Tuesday nights?

We had several new players in the money league this year and we hardly advertised at all.

So I challenge each member to bring someone new into the league for the spring season. The MANGLERS have committed to break the team up and form new teams if necessary.

We do need better communication within the league. Every member with computer access needs to have access to the forum and we need more posts from our board members.

So let's have some response from our members. How can we grow the league and make it better?

Later,
I have two new members on my B league team this season. Each time a blind draw was held and people who I didn't know or weren't in the league came, I introduced myself, took their phone numbers and have texted to invited them to participate in draws, ADO qualifiers, the banquet and the league. I also suggested that, like the pool league, we have posters in all bars that have dart boards, whether they sponsor a team or not, telling about our league and who to contact if someone wants to participate. This suggestion was well-received and I'm told posters will be made and put up.
For those in the league, reaching out to new players and trying to be helpful in making sure they get on a team if they want to, as well as old players who may be having trouble finding a team would be great. Just because you have a team doesn't mean you shouldn't be active in helping others find a team in support of the league.
The liver is evil; it must be punished.

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Post by Sportsgirl33 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:39 am

Bonnie wrote: It is unacceptable for so few members to decide who our officers are. If it's not unacceptable to you Stacey, then what would you call it? And, no, it wasn't directed at the board, like Dave said. This is a problem that needs to be addressed. I don't have a problem at all with who was elected, but if you want everyone to quit saying only a few people run the league, these are situations the board needs to avoid. It's the way things are perceived
If the underlined is true, then perhaps a vote on making the Secretary and Treasurer separate positions again should be considered? It would add to the number of officers voting on the board.
The liver is evil; it must be punished.

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Post by BRIAN CAPPS » Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:37 pm

I have a few things to say on some of things in this post.
First of all let me say as the new VP I am very honored and excited to be a part of the W.C.D.A. board. As for it being unacceptable that so few elected officers I say "Where were you?" Everyone wants to get on here and complain but when it comes down to it WHERE ARE YOU?? Where are you for meetings,elections,banquets and season???
As for star points bringing in new members??? Come on really?? No star point are probaly not going to bring in new members. (That task lies with each and every one of us!!) But what star points will do, is make a C player who has to play in B,(cause we don't have a C instructional league anymore) is show them that they can still play in this league. If you tell a new player coming into this league:"If you can't hit 9counts,180's,or 6 bulls you should not be in this league",then they will quit.
If you think separating secretary and treasure will make everyone feel more involved, I say bring it up for a vote!!!

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Post by diamond » Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:03 pm

Good post Brian, It's good to see you post and welcome as our new V.P.
The comment about it being unacceptable is appropriate. It is unacceptable for us to have such a small turnout at the elections. My team had representation at the meeting, however it's apparent we need to move the spring elections back to the spring banquet in order to have a larger number. I have shared some ideas with Rob and Stacey to help streamline the process.

As for star points I think it is a great idea to have them in B division and lower. I don't know of anyone stating: "If you can't hit 9counts, 180s, or 6 bull you should not be in this league". We had a great match this Tuesday and there were no 9counts, 180s, or 6 bulls hit all night. There were some very good and very bad darts thrown. We did have a great time.

What do you think we need to do to attract more members?

Later,
Diamond

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Post by randy » Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:23 pm

i dont think theres that many people interested in the political side of the the dart league . most just wont to throw darts and have fun . if they cared who was prez they would show up and vote . as for elections at the banquet ,bad idea we just wanna eat and get awards . theres not many people want the responsibility of running for office , so i applaud the few that want the job

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Post by Sportsgirl33 » Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:08 pm

BRIAN CAPPS wrote:If you think separating secretary and treasure will make everyone feel more involved, I say bring it up for a vote!!!
Brian, I was simply addressing Bonnie's comment and coming up with a suggestion to possibly alleviate this concern:
Sportsgirl33 wrote:
Bonnie wrote: It is unacceptable for so few members to decide who our officers are. If it's not unacceptable to you Stacey, then what would you call it? And, no, it wasn't directed at the board, like Dave said. This is a problem that needs to be addressed. I don't have a problem at all with who was elected, but if you want everyone to quit saying only a few people run the league, these are situations the board needs to avoid. It's the way things are perceived
If the underlined is true, then perhaps a vote on making the Secretary and Treasurer separate positions again should be considered? It would add to the number of officers voting on the board.
The liver is evil; it must be punished.

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Post by cam » Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:04 am

I know it could be hard to understand why top ten should reflect all games played,but saying that playing with a lesser player could drag you down may be the ego that i am talking about.If you feel counting singles only is the best way to show who is the best dart thrower in our league i will agree 'ESPECIALY NOW THAT #1 PLAYS #1"and that player would be top gun.''THE BEST''.Now here is where we strongly disagree top ten should reflect the best darts thrown all around counting all games played will strenthen teams.Most years top gun and number 1 was the same guy and when star points where in affect we had triple crown.That hands down was a system that worked.As for the everybody gets a trophy coment b/s .I was refering to the decline in High in and High out plaques.and one trophy per div. for star points,a the now unachievable triple crown.I will say team game back in a is wonderful wish it was all div.,going back to stats for singles great ,and star points except for cricket in lower div.excelent wish it was also all div.because that will be another reason teams want move up"because A div. isn't any fun"

"BLUE IN THE FINGERS"

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Post by cam » Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:01 am

As for elections taking buisness out of the banquet was one of the best things ever.However elections should not have been moved from our largest gathering.I personaly think that was a mistake that wont be made again.I agree with capps though about his almost show up or shut up aproach,but not when it comes to elections that have always been held during the banquet and should always be held then.And if you came to the banquet to vote this seasons officers in and wasn't able to make the next meeting you may have a gripe.If you wasn't even at the last banquet then "show up or shut up ''

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Post by diamond » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:31 pm

Thanks for the post Charlie. I love it when you chime in with your opinion. I wish more people would do it. The top ten players want to know how they stack up against their peers, not including their partners. I won two Top Guns during the star point era and one year I was almost knocked out of the top spot by a weaker player who scored a lot of star points. Without star points he wouldn't have even made the top ten. That's one reason why the triple crown was created, to cut down on the abuse. If you don't have star points for cricket, you punish the good cricket players.

As for awards I know high in, high out, ton80s, 9counts, and six bulls receive awards, however the regular season first and second place teams should get an award and the playoff winners should too. I know when we voted in the playoffs we emphasized the need for the regular season winner to be recognized. I'm not sure why that was changed.

As for A league not being fun, I must strongly disagree. We played the Travelers last week and I know both teams had fun. We also have a new team in A (Dartzilla) and they are a former B division team. So whomever says A division is not fun doesn't know what they are talking about.

The 701 team game is a blast.

Later,
Diamond

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Post by JAM » Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:16 pm

For what it's worth.....

I'm loving the posts & what I would call a new fire & interest in what's going on in the league. Lost members...how do WE (Ya'll) fix it? That's how it gets done! God bless & keep it up. Congrats to new officers. (Fun ain't it!)

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Post by BRIAN CAPPS » Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:33 pm

If we had elections at this past banquet there would still only been about 30 people voting cause that is all we had show up!!!
People it is up to all of us on how this league is run. But if you don't show up to voice your opinion or concerns then you have no right to complain about how the league is run!!!
Jim hope you are doing well!!!!!

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